In this conversation we discuss Stephen's ideas about the evolution of imagination and improvisation. After defining terms Stephen's talks about his idea of the 'second universe', the link between dreams and storytelling and his view that drawing, dance and gesture preceded language in evolution. We talk about the difference between 'hot' and 'cold' cognition and explore the necessary conditions for improvisation then end with a discussion of cultural differences in the importance attached to improvisation, contrasting particularly the USA and China.Participants:Stephen Asma, Professor of Philosophy, Columbia College, Chicago, USA. www.stephenasma.comKen Barrett, artist, writer, retired neuropsychiatrist http://www.kenbarrettstudio.co.uk/Stephen's Book, The Evol;ution of Imagination': https://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Imagination-Stephen-T-Asma-ebook/dp/B06WWJC8JX/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=p7r7l&content-id=amzn1.sym.f911c8db-3a2b-4b3e-952f-b80fdcee83f4&pf_rd_p=f911c8db-3a2b-4b3e-952f-b80fdcee83f4&pf_rd_r=131-8110503-3306616&pd_rd_wg=A284i&pd_rd_r=b4eef1a3-7076-4640-9f69-d105cfccb0e7&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_dskStephen's podcast, “Chinwag”, cohosted with Paul Giamattihttps://www.treefort.fm/series/chinwagOpening and closing music: 'Improvisation for Brainland' by Stephen Asma.Brainland the opera website: www.brainlandtheopera.co.ukSketch by KB. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.