Author and primatologist Frans de Waal  talks about great apes, not-so-great humans, animal emotions and anthropodenial with Skaana (@Skaanapod) host Mark Leiren-Young (@leirenyoung). Skaana podcasts connect you to news and experts and their discussions about environments, oceans, and orcas. Join the Pod……https://www.patreon.com/mobydoll Spotify……………www.bit.ly/spotify-skaana Apple Podcasts………www.skaana.ca The Orca Bites Podcast (on anchor) ………www.orcabites.com – Skaana home……www.skaana.org Skaana on Medium……www.orcatales.com Our Latest Orca Videos…www.jpod.news – Facebook…………https://www.facebook.com/skaanapod/ Twitter……………https://twitter.com/leirenyoung Instagram…………https://www.instagram.com/skaanapod/ Support Our Guest For more on the life and work of Frans de Waal His new book – Different – what can apes teach us about sex and gender? https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/apr/17/frans-de-waal-in-other-primates-i-dont-find-the-kind-of-intolerance-we-have  His Ted Talk – Do Animals Have Morals http://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_do_animals_have_morals And here he is on Facebook Books on Amazon and Classes **Amazon links are affiliate links and support our podcast, thanks for clicking!   The Killer Whale Who Changed the World… http://amzn.to/2pRNU1q   Orcas Everywhere… http://www.orcaseverywhere.com   Paint the Ocean You Wish to See with Rayne Ellycrys Benu… digital-enlightenment.net   The Force of Doubt by Rayne Ellycrys Benu… https://books2read.com/forceofdoubt Show Notes 1:30 – Intro 3:35 – Defining anthropodenial. 6:05 – Anthropomorphism and primates. 7:02 – “That’s the interesting part is we are so human-centric that we can deal with facial expressions, but not with the expressions of an elephant who do a lot of things was their trunk and ears, but their face is not very mobile.” 8:31 – Are humans a “successful” species? 11:05 – On human exceptionalism. “People always want to be special.” 12:40 – “If related species show similar behavior under similar circumstances, you have to use the same terminology because the psychology behind it is probably similar too.” 13:28 – How science’s relationship with anthropomorphism is changing. 14:40 – Laughing chimps. 16:15 -Why primatologists use names for apes not numbers. 17:58 – Animals and grief. “All animals that have attachments can also grieve.” 20:30 -“I’m not against humanizing animals or animalizing humans.” 22:49 – Survival of the kindest versus survival of the fittest. 26:00 – Talking about his book Mama’s Last Hug. 27:40 – Gender roles in bonobos. 30:05 – Bonobos solve problems with sex. 32:46 – Is there resistance to de Waal’s work and theories? 34:27 – His thoughts on animal personhood and the rights of animals. 36:30 – How he became interested in animals and animal behaviour. 42:34 – How he began working with chimpanzees. 46:32 – Becoming friends with apes. 47:25 – Animal communication and “dialect”. 51:12 – On being a cat person. “I consider cats extremely social.” 52:10 – Talking to the Dalai Lama about empathy. “I think empathy is found in all the mammals.”