Chicken Or Fish

  Chicken Or Fish Season Theme: HungryAs we enter the home stretch of this season, the conversations get even more honest. “Hungry” has always been about the things we long for connection, clarity, purpose and this episode lands right in that space. Guest Introduction:My guest this week is Jonathan McLean, a true “Why” guy. He’s the kind of person who isn’t afraid to ask the deeper questions and follow them wherever they lead. Our conversation begins in a vulnerable place: the hunger to be seen, heard, and loved by those closest to us. Jonathan opened up about his relationship with his father and the ache that comes from waiting for someone to reach out. It’s something I relate to and maybe you do too.The title Chicken Or Fish comes right out of Jonathan’s world at Osprey Guide. He shared a powerful picture: the osprey, a bird that doesn’t play it safe. It dives headfirst into cold, deep, messy water to get what it needs. It goes all in, even when it’s uncomfortable. Because staying stuck scared, hesitant, and frozen like a chicken never gets you fed.That became the heart of our conversation:Are you diving into the life that’s meant for you?Or are you standing on the shore, afraid of the water?We explore what it means to be truly seen, the weight we carry when success doesn’t feel aligned, and the pain of longing for connection from someone who never quite reaches back. And near the end, Jonathan leads us into something I don’t think has ever happened on the show before an exercise you’re invited to do with us. It’s simple, grounding, and surprisingly emotional.Jonathan’s work centers on helping people understand their wiring through Human Design and step into their lives with clarity and courage. If you’ve felt “successfully stuck,” overwhelmed, or shaped by the expectations of others, his approach may hit home. Episode Highlights:The osprey metaphor: choosing courage over fearJonathan’s deep hunger for connection with his fatherWhat it means to feel seen and understoodThe weight we carry when success doesn’t feel alignedA first-time-on-the-show guided exercise Connect with Jonathan McLean: Osprey Guide Facebook Listen & Follow Other People’s Shoes: Website Instagram Facebook X YouTube Leave Us a Review:If this episode stirred something in you, leave a review and share how stepping into Jonathan’s shoes shifted your view.Leave a Review