Carter Phipps is the author of Evolutionaries and coauthor of the Wall Street Journal Bestseller Conscious Leadership with John Mackey and Steve McIntosh. He is co-founder of the Institute for Cultural Evolution, which addresses political polarization though focusing on the cultural roots of America’s challenges. He hosts the Thinking Ahead podcast and is a former award-winning journalist and executive editor of What Is Enlightenment? Magazine. His website is http://www.carterphipps.com. Essay we discussed in the interview: Mysticism and Its Discontents: Does Spiritual Illumination Create its own Intrinsic Blindness? Summary and Transcript and of this interview Discussion of this interview in the BatGap Community Facebook Group Interview recorded July 29, 2023 YouTube Video Chapters: 00:00:00 - Introduction to Buddha at the Gas Pump 00:03:50 - The Paradox of Spiritual Teachers' Behavior 00:07:52 - The Subtleties of Enlightenment and the Dangers of Blind Spots 00:11:24 - The Complications of Spiritual Awakening 00:14:40 - Defining Enlightenment 00:18:42 - Strengths and Weaknesses in Areas of Genius 00:22:31 - The Transformative Power of Mystical Awakening 00:26:15 - The Tradeoffs of Enlightenment 00:29:31 - Levels of Reality and Integration 00:35:06 - The Goal of Our Own Practice 00:37:33 - Delusion in Deep Mystical Experience 00:41:43 - The Path of Renunciation and Self-Brainwashing 00:45:46 - The Complex Psychology of Seeking Enlightenment 00:50:24 - The Evolution of Culture and Consciousness 00:55:17 - The Dangers of Unhealthy Self-Doubt and Lack of Self-Criticism 00:59:32 - The Delusion of Pure Motive 01:03:22 - The Dangers of Spiritual Confidence 01:08:15 - Blurring the Line between the Spiritual and Manifest World 01:14:10 - The Interface between Science and Spirituality 01:17:50 - The Tradition of Debate and Mythical Stories 01:21:35 - The Power and Deception of Inner Intuition 01:25:41 - The Relationship Between Enlightenment and Psychological Instability 01:28:35 - Psychological Traces and Vulnerability to Mystical Experiences 01:31:49 - Spiritual Breakthroughs and Psychological Breakdowns 01:35:11 - The Role of Responsible Psychedelic Therapists 01:39:44 - The Importance of Understanding Cultural Evolution and the Adjacent Possible 01:45:18 - The Myth of the Perfect Enlightened Figure 01:50:09 - The Importance of Understanding the Self-Structure 01:55:00 - The Importance of Questioning Spiritual Myths and Beliefs 01:59:38 - Being Discerning and Questioning 02:07:06 - Future Teaching and Updates from Carter Phipps