In this episode, Mike Field shares his work in system thinking to develop practical approaches to creating lasting systemic socio-economic change. The specific focus for this episode is differentiating between a healthy hierarchy and oligarchy. Mike Field has over 25 years experience designing, assessing training and implementing systems based approaches to market educational health and environmental challenges. Through his work. Mike has played a key role in setting learning and research agendas in the field of systems approaches to international development. He is currently a market systems analyst at eco ventures, international, where he provides guidance on applying systems lenses to address challenges. To social and market context internationally. Learn more here [https://www.ma.imperial.ac.uk/~mjfield1/] The Systemic Societal Health is a weekly podcast hosted by Dr. Sally Goerner, Research Director of the Planetary Health Lab for The University of Edinburgh. Learn more at [https://www.planetaryhealthlab.com/] Music by Siddhartha Corsus .